So, how much do you trust the #Russians?

So, how much do you trust the #Russians? For a year now #DonaldTrump has been extolling the virtues of Vlad "The Glad" Putin and the rank and file Republicans batshit crazy Trump supporters have been echoing his claims. I wonder, if Russia cuts or taps these lines, will the TrumpMonster defend Putin as he has for so many other things?

In #TrumpNation Russia's meddling is good for you.
https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/policy/defense/366290-russian-submarine-activity-increases-around-under-sea-internet-cables%3famp

Comments

Stephen Dickson said…
I trust Russia way more than America.
Jason ON said…
Stephen Dickson that's really sad. For all my country's faults, it's still leagues above and beyond Russia.
Harold Chester said…
Back when I was in the Navy we hunted Soviet submarines in the Mediterranean. I have zero trust for the Russians.
Olaf Fichtner said…
Just an attempt to create hysteria so people do not notice what else might happen. What benefit would cutting a cable bring Russia? If anything, it's about tapping - for which they would need special equipment, the kind the US have...

The Guardian wrote about this ten days ago, quite entertaining:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/14/russia-could-cut-off-internet-to-nato-countries-british-military-chief-warns

Btw, it's quite hilarious to see Trump being called a puppet of Putin - when Putin is basically the result of the US meddling heavily in Soviet elections... Boomerang? And while the GOP usually would not hesitate to use Russia for their scare tactics to keep people from noticing what they are doing, they are now locked in their desperate need for Trump, to get their agenda through.
Bryce Miller said…
Obviously whatever they are doing, they are not doing it with the best interest of the US in mind or heart.
Olaf Fichtner said…
Bryce Miller then elect them into Congress and pay them nicely. Won't make a difference to now...
Jason ON said…
Stephen Dickson yes.
Stephen Dickson said…
Not from where I'm standing. Warmongers and liars.
Stephen Dickson said…
No. That doesn't explain Jack shit. It's a cop out.

Tell me the reason the us went to war in Iraq a couple of times.
Tell me how much the us gives israel in straight cash as well as guns.
Start explaining why the cia was deep into Australian politics and in fact did a soft coo.
Start explaining why they are talking about a war in the Pacific.

No, america can't explain fuck all.
Oh, explain why many very rich yanks are moving here to NZ.
Jason ON said…
Stephen Dickson the point being, we're not talking about the USA. This post is about trusting the Russians to have the world's best interests at heart. Instead of engaging in said discussion you decided to (1) change the subject to American improprieties by answering criticism of Russia with criticism of the USA and (2) applying what you perceive as negative standards of American conduct to standards you believe other nations, such as Russia, do not meet. In other words, you're biased against the USA and therefore cannot make an objective statement on the discussion at hand.
Olaf Fichtner said…
The world's best interests? Haha, no country. Or if, then only countries like Iceland or NZ. Forget everyone else, especially since in many cases it's not even about a country's best interests, but of those who bought most politicians and lobbyists.

Seriously, make a table and list on one side what Russians have done to you or the people around you. On the other list what your government and representatives have done. That may not look very good in case of the US...
Bryce Miller said…
Olaf Fichtner listing the US's faults or any countries past actions would make Russian's intentions less nefarious? Nope, doesn't work that way.
Olaf Fichtner said…
Bryce Miller where did I say that? Read again please, then try to make that list.

Besides, I really don't understand the US' obsession with Russia. When it still was the Soviet Union - OK: communism, archenemy, bogeyman. But the Soviet Union has long ceased to be. GUS has ceased to be. Now there is the Russian Federation, a capitalist country like the US. There is no "communism" anymore.

If you want to worry about another country, worry about the PRC. Their military is getting stronger, they made a number of countries depending on them economically and they also have a good grip on the US economy. Just look at all the US bonds China owns.

It's just good luck that the US owns the moral high ground:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/10/13/the-long-history-of-the-u-s-interfering-with-elections-elsewhere/?utm_term=.cfad06f20150

It's not as if someone had pumped millions of US dollars into Yeltsin, so he could win and then sell out the country's natural resources to US corporations. It's not as if someone had pumped millions of US dollars into Ukraine, to get the country heading into the "right" direction. And of course no US politicians and officials have ever been seen on stage in Ukraine, and of course never with Nazi groups.

It's not as if the US has ever said "He has to go!", then invaded another country, toppled the government and left the country destabilized or put "our guy" on the throne - or simply sent money and weapons to "freedom fighters" - which some time later turn into "terrorists" and maybe later again into "rebels". That has never happened anywhere, not in Iran, not in Afghanistan, not in Iraq, Libya, Syria.

Btw, in 1990, before the German unification was possible, all four allied forces had to agree with it. To convince Gorbachev, both US and West German politicians promised multiple times that there would be no further extension of NATO. This was unfortunately never put into writing, but expressed orally, including on camera. So who is expanding, and who is really, really trustworthy?
https://youtu.be/QZ0EYodvj6o

There's a German saying suggesting one should not throw stones when living in a house of glass...
Bryce Miller said…
Olaf Fichtner you continue to miss the point or just enjoy deflecting. China being a threat doesn't mean we close our eyes while Russia potentially tampers with our infrastructure. Don't throw stones? Taking notice of a threat is not throwing stones. It's not about disparaging the source of the threat either. It's not a competition to see who can make a longer list of who's faults. You wouldn't ignore a seagull pecking out your baby's eyes just because someone is telling you a long story about past affronts by coyotes.
Olaf Fichtner said…
Bryce Miller​ I'm not sure I'm missing a point. IMHO missing a point would be chasing shadows while missing or ignoring the pink elephant in the room.

Very well, you mention infrastructure, let's compare that. It's interesting you also said "potentially", because so far there seems to be no proof. So, which infrastructure did the Russians potentially tamper with, can you list a few?
Bryce Miller said…
Olaf Fichtner The post is about the vulnerability of "NATO nations’ undersea infrastructure", so obviously that's what I was referring to. As in transatlantic telecommunications cables. Specifically, the commander reported they have been repeatedly active along the cables. Surveys, or something. They obviously could be documenting cable paths, types, quantities, condition, etc. Creating plans for cutting, or for planting detonators to lie in wait in case of conflict, or for installing wiretaps, etc. could follow.
Your attempts to list faults of the US could just as easily have been called a list of motivations for Russia to oppose the US and secretly work to create new threats to it. The pink elephant you refer to is that the US has a target on its back; whether you think it deserves that target or not wouldn't change that. Obviously Russia doesn't feel ashamed to "chase shadows" when it follows up on all potential threats it can conceive of. but even without a target, the data flowing through those cables is worth more than gold. Not being vigilant would be like leaving a giant pile of cash in the city square. People are going to steal it, whether you think they are nefarious or not. They just will.
Olaf Fichtner said…
Bryce Miller a pity you didn't list anything you claimed before. It's really a pity that when it comes to facts, some people suddenly become very evasive. Btw, the people chasing shadows are not the Russians, but US citizens. "The commander reported" - oh yes. Did you watch "1941"? There was a commander reporting all kinds of Japanese activity. You should watch the film.

Yes, the Russians could be documenting cable paths - because those are documented already. Plans for cutting, planting detonators? Sounds great, just like in a Hollywood movie! The reality is different though: Simply use a fishing trawler, that's where all the cuts came from so far.

However, why cut? What is the advantage of that? Military communication is not relying on submarine cables, so if you cut a cable between Europe and the US for example, the main result will be higher latency due to rerouting, which hits especially video communications and gamers. This "threat" sounds great, but is rather nonsense, because nobody gains anything from cutting submarine cables.

But never mind. Focus on "the Russians"! Russians are evil. Everything else doesn't matter. That you get poisened through your tap water, lose your job to outsourcing, may die in a train derailment due to maintenance cuts or go broke because you had to go to the hospital after another maniac with an AR-15 wounded you, all that is a small price to pay for being free. Besides, somehow all that is "the Russians" fault.

Stay sharp. Stay focussed. "Russians"!
Stephen Dickson said…
Bryce Miller​ nato, americas mouth piece.
The main threat atm is america and it's lust for power.

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