Amber Peall​ believes atheists can also be Christians.

Amber Peall​ believes atheists can also be Christians. Naturally, I disagree. Christians, by definition, must believe Jesus Christ was (1) the son of the Abrahamic god, (2) died for your sins and (3) was resurrected. All of this is predicated on the idea that there is a god to begin with.

Now, I will admit there is something called a "Christian Atheist" out there but the definition seems to be all over the place. One definition is people who choose to live by their western Judeo-Christian values but don't believe in the Judeo-Christian god while another definition is the people who do believe in the god, Yaweh, but don't believe he has any role in their lives. Now, normally we'd call that deism, but hey, what's in a word?

Personally, I believe the two concepts are mutually contradictive to each other. One cannot be both an acting Christian and an atheist.

Agree? Disagree?

Comments

Sam Moore said…
If you reduce Christianity to an ideal (Jesus was a nice guy, be like him), kinda. But atheist is not really an ideal.
Just seems like so many misunderstandings to think a Theist can also be an atheist. Let alone the Christian bit.
Sam Moore said…
Cindy Sharp Like an atheist Jew?
amy campbell said…
As an atheist I still follow the golden rule : Do unto others as you would have done to you.
Amber Peall said…
You should be a little more honest in your assertions, Jason ON​. You said there was no such thing; I pointed out there are Christian Atheist groups, and referred you to a number of sources. That's how they define themselves - as I suggested, take it up with them.

Exactly that, Cindy Sharp​​. My grandfather was a secular Jew.
That's difficult. The word Christ is meaningless without a god, but people use words, especially names and titles, all the time without regard to their actual meaning. Somebody could call themselves a "follower of Christ" and mean they follow the philosophy of a man named Jesus who is also known as Christ whether that word in truth applies to him or not. So considering how loosely people tend to use language, I would say that it is possible.

I think it's a silly thing to do, but people can call themselves whatever they want.
Ari Malek said…
Cindy Sharp​​ in fact, majority of Jews are not religious, and many are indeed atheists for all practical purposes. Many of these Jewish atheists follow Jewish customs, traditions, holidays, and other cultural events (Bar Mitzvah for the kid, synogague on High Holidays, etc.).
Amber Peall said…
James Hollenbeck​, I agree entirely, but each to their own - if it helps them be better people, it's a good thing, don't you think? :-)

Ari Malek​, I think most Christians in Britain are like that too...
Philip Setnik said…
I would posit that most Jews are not Atheists. Many are agnostic, and a decent proportion adhere to the "watchmaker" model - that G-d created the universe and everything in it, set it to running, and then pawned it for some much-needed cash stepped away from its continuing operation.

I would also throw out there that the majority of atheists aren't Atheists either, but rather agnostics. Being an Atheist takes serious effort, it seems to me, and most people don't care to examine things that strenuously.

Thanks for the ping, Cindy Sharp​​.
Sam Moore said…
Ares Heart I'm instantly dying for a definition of the variable Christian. It is so ambiguous ATM.
Ari Malek said…
Cindy Sharp was the question to Philip Setnik​ prompted by my comment? I agree with Philip's note on this. Note that I didn't state the majority of Jews were atheists either 🙂.
Adrian Parsons said…
There was recently a minister in the United Church of Canada that was defrocked for being an Atheist. (And open about it too.)
The ruling was made by the Church but had 4 votes (out of 23) to let her remain in the ministry.
So at least four council members of the United Church of Canada believe that you can be Atheistic & Christian (and a minister, no less).

thestar.com - ‘Sad day’ for United Church, says atheist minister Gretta Vosper | Toronto Star
Shawn McClure said…
If a particular belief system "helps be better people" (and here let's choose to loosely define "better people" as people who generally do increasingly more good than harm in their respective societies/groups), but yet the belief system is based on falsehoods/myths, can the belief system still be considered "good" and/or "worthwhile" in spite of its erroneous foundation? That's a tougher question for me than it seems to be for some folks in this thread. While some "good" may arguably come from such a situation in specific, limited cases, I find it hard to conclude that perpetuating falsehood of any sort is ever "good" or worthwhile in the long term.
Shawn McClure said…
Also, without intending offense to anyone, the idea of an "atheist/secular Jew/Christian" (pick your combination) strikes me as an affectation of fairly high degree, regardless of any apologetic reasoning behind the title.

Think about this. (English is not my first language, so I hope you understand).

I think there must have been a man, who was born in what is now called Israel. That time the Roman empire. Let say his name was Jesus. There were a lot of people who listend to his stories, stories about a god, about life, about living together, etc.. Story telling was the way to make your point, and he was good at that. Better than the people in church. So he was a threat to the establishment. More and more people heared about him and wanted to listen. They also told what they heared. Time for the powerfull people to eliminate him. A normal way in that time is crusifixion, so that happend. About 300 years later a Roman emperor hears about this man, listened to al the stories (which will be a bit different after 300 years) and accept this man 'Jesus' as the son of god. Christianity is born and starts to spread. Stories are written down and is accepted as a holy book. Just as the other holy books from other religions.

Do not get mad at me. I think there has been a Jesus, but no god. Now during the time I wrote this story, several people have been saying that they are the Messiah, Jesus, or even god. Now we just laugh at them and say they are stupid.

But what will they say in 2000 years from now?

I am an atheist, but think Jesus has been a real person, just like you and me, only with a terrible good historical story. What do you call me?

Philip Setnik said…
Shawn McClure​ Interestingly, I think a Jewish atheist is the most plausible, because of the (I believe) unique situation that Judaism is inheritable. If a person is born of a Jewish mother, he is a Jew, irrespective of his beliefs or practices.
Jason ON said…
Philip Setnik, so "Jewish" can be determined by DNA?

Amber Peall​, I did say there was no such thing. One cannot, at the same time, both believe and disbelieve in a god. This isn't Schrödinger's deity.
Philip Setnik said…
Jason ON​ Well, not exactly... because even the child of a convert (no DNA involved) is a Jew.
Sam Moore said…
That's interesting that you can inherit an idea.
Philip Setnik said…
Sam Moore​ I know, right?
Marla Caldwell said…
Jason ON my DNA profile says I'm 13% Ashkenazi Jew (which I would expect, having one Jewish grandfather whose parents were German). This is why one can be an atheist Jew or secular Jew, because there are both cultural and ethnic properties of being Jewish that are de-linked from following Judaism.

Christianity has no ethnic properties. It does have cultural properties, and a lot of people are atheists or secular with a Christian cultural heritage. They are not Christian atheists, because Christian includes in its definition that a person is a theist. You cannot be a theist and an atheist at the same time.
Amber Peall said…
Jason ON​, and as I pointed out, that doesn't seem to be a problem for Christian Atheists.

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