Separation of church and state is not so separate in Pennsylvania when speech is shot down by lawmakers as violating...

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Separation of church and state is not so separate in Pennsylvania when speech is shot down by lawmakers as violating "god's law".

I'm not sure what the recourse is for a legislator who has had his first amendment rights taken away but I certainly hope he fights this abuse.


http://goo.gl/mag/AOEAHuC

Comments

James Karaganis said…
Well, the Supreme Court established, quite some time ago, that God's supposed law does not trump our law. Period. End of statement. Personally, I would rather have a gay atheist lawmaker than a heterosexual fundamentalist sociopath.
June 29, 2013 at 11:51 AM
Preston Garno said…
James Karaganis quick question- Man's law can all of a sudden trump/overrule God's laws?
It sounds a little arrogant and rebellious to me...
June 30, 2013 at 7:26 PM
Jason ON said…
Preston Garno, let's just say, in the United States, we are a Constitutional Republic, not a theocratical oligarchy.
July 2, 2013 at 11:52 AM
James Karaganis said…
Jason ON What Preston Garno doesn't understand is that a. God is a fiction, and b. even if he were real, the fact that some airheaded politician claims that another person is violating "God's law" (whatever flavor of that we're talking about, there are so many) doesn't mean squat. I could just as easily argue that said politician is violating "God's law" merely by being an arrogant ass.

Preston Garno All of a sudden? The Supreme Court made that ruling over a century ago: it was in regards to Mormons wanting to be polygamous. According to their "God's law", polygamy was their right. The government disagreed. Guess who won that argument.

Furthermore, if you look around the world, the societies that are the most prosperous, most successful, and have the greatest percentage of happy, industrious citizens are those which have which have thrown "God's law" out of their legal systems entirely. The imposition of "God's law" is, and always will be, synonymous with oppression, persecution and death. That's the facts, Jack.
July 2, 2013 at 12:23 PM
Jason ON said…
I know, James Karaganis, I was just trying to be diplomatic about the issue.
July 2, 2013 at 12:43 PM
James Karaganis said…
Jason ON Hey, I know you know. I wasn't particularly diplomatic, but then again I wasn't trying to be.
July 2, 2013 at 1:09 PM
Preston Garno said…
James Karaganis  yes I totally agree- the happiest and most prosperous systems HAVE thrown God out of their system: like, oh, what was that one system.... Communism? Remember Lenin, Stalin, and those followers of the Godless tyranny of Russia in the in the mid-1900s? Those weren’t  "the most prosperous, most successful, and have the greatest percentage of happy, industrious citizens" from what anyone can remember!  Need I even mention Germany in the 1930s and 40s?!? Who do you think you are, saying that the Godless systems have always had happy and industrious?  Mao Tse Tung?!? The citizens weren’t so happy with him in charge.  Look at the depression, murder, and suicide rates in America.  In 2010 there was an average of 105 suicides a day.  http://www.suicidology.org/c/document_library/get_file?folderId=262&name=DLFE-636.pdf  That sounds like the people of America are quite happy today.  And prosperous? America has flourished early on as a strong young new state, but now our extreme capitalism is backfiring.  Tell me that the people of America are happy with the skyrocketing unemployment rates.  Or the housing market.  Or our losing battle with the foreign economic powers.  Or our boom-bust banking/money cycle.  Oh yeah, we are reeeeally prosperous today! 2008 and our booming mortgage market shows that!  The list of problems just goes on…

So. Now let’s look at the "God's law" and always being synonymous with “oppression, persecution, and death.”  The so called “Dark Ages” were the ACTUAL times of prosperity.  The Holy Roman Empire, while not perfect, spread education and advancements throughout Europe and wiped out barbarianism.  This fact is almost always forgotten: that the monks of the Middle Ages built the schools and towns.  Call that oppression, persecution, and death?  Give me an example of a time when Christianity and God's law brought oppression and persecution and death.  The entire Christian theology is armed Against your accusations.  Your past statement just shows that you are either brainwashed or lying.
July 2, 2013 at 2:12 PM
James Karaganis said…
I have news for you: Russia's government was hardly secular. I know that was the popular propaganda spewed forth by our government during the Cold War, but it was simply not true. It still is not true, and in fact there is a resurgence in organized, State-sponsored religion in Russia today. China, on the other hand, isn't a Christian nation (which is, I know, the only religion you are able to acknowledge as such) but is hardly atheistic. In fact, Chinese spirituality goes back further in history than Christianity, and is far more diverse.

The rest of your diatribe is equally ignorant of actual history. The Abrahamic religions have been responsible for some of the worst periods of death and destruction in human history. I might add that Nazi Germany, far from being secular, was in fact backed by the Catholic Church, and Hitler, so far as he was concerned, derived his power directly from God.

Don't you dare tell me that Christianity is armored against my accusations. Christianity and Islam are the cause of my accusations.
July 2, 2013 at 2:35 PM
Preston Garno said…
Propaganda? C'mon man the entire goal of communism in Russia especially, but also in china and socialist Germany, was the glorification of man by the cycle of chaos, to the point where a HUMAN UTOPIA was formed, with man being perfect, and no religion was needed. Read Karl Marx's book- in it he famously states that "religion is the opium of the people." Now if that isn't anti-god and as secular as anything, I don't know what is. What about the millions of people killed in the regimes of Stalin, Lenin, and hitler? These were people who believed in a religion which got in the way of their "progress to a human utopia." Who taught you history? Do your homework and read up on Karl Marx's DAS KAPITAL and Hitler's MEIN KAMPF. You don't need to read much to sense their anti-God campaign goals and philosophies.
Now I am a Roman Catholic, and by that the Faith is the only one by which the Truth and true Peace can be reached. Islam and other such religions have caused strife, no doubt, but you are throwing the baby out with the bath-water if you come to the conclusion that "belief in God in society can only cause oppression and death." Really really bad logic. Now, name one time where the Catholic Church has caused oppression, persecution, and death. And get me a source too.
Also, tell me that America today is happy and prosperous and extremely powerful. Can you really say that?
July 2, 2013 at 4:30 PM
Preston Garno said…
James Karaganis heres your passage from Pope Leo XIII's Encyclical "Rerum Novarum" against socialism (i.E. Nazi Germany): "It must be first of all recognized that the condition of things inherent in human affairs must be borne with, for it is impossible to reduce civil society to one dead level. Socialists may in that intent do their utmost, but all striving against nature is in vain." (Par. 17).
July 2, 2013 at 4:47 PM
Preston Garno said…
James Karaganis anything to say?
July 3, 2013 at 9:45 AM
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